Learning to Let Go So That You Can Lead
Episode Notes
In this episode of 52 Humans, Paul sits down with Johnny Martinez, Director of People Advisory and Organizational Change at Proactivity. They discuss the importance of empathetic and human-first leadership, as well as how to evolve as a leader. Johnny shares a story from his early leadership days, highlighting the power of connecting with people, listening, and letting go. Tune in to learn how Johnny built a successful team by focusing on people skills, surrounding himself with diverse perspectives, and fostering a fun work environment.
About the Guest
Johnny Martinez
Director, People Advisory and Organizational Change
Protiviti
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0:09
Hello and welcome to another weekly episode of 52 humans, the vlogs on stories of human first leadership.
0:16
I'm your host, Paul Wolf and I created this show to inspire us all to transform our workplaces by returning to the humanity that binds us today.
0:25
I'm looking forward to my conversation with Johnny Martinez about human first and empathetic leadership.
0:30
Johnny is the director of people advisory and organizational change at Proactivity.
0:36
He is an amazing human being.
0:38
He is a dog dad and we did work together at a previous company and Johnny, welcome to the show.
0:43
Thanks for having me, Paul.
0:45
It's great to see you.
0:46
It's good to see you too.
0:47
Tell us a little bit about proactivity and kind of what your role is there.
0:50
I think it's fascinating.
0:52
Yeah.
0:52
No, thanks.
0:53
So, at proactivity, I'm part of a practice that's focused on helping organizations evolve their hr teams.
1:04
We focus on everything from broader hr effectiveness to organizational change.
1:10
I tend to play in the reward space which you and I worked on closely employee experience and and the like, so it's a ton of fun.
1:21
I work with a broad set of clients across a number of different industries.
1:25
And again, we're sort of in a young emerging practice, which I also like we're building and creating so a lot of fun.
1:34
That's great.
1:35
It's, it, it's so interesting now to watch, you know, we had the pandemic and then we've had economic, you know, challenges, inflation and lots of layoffs and how companies are looking at efficiency in hr which I think we, we do all the time, but there's a laser focus now, but also just leadership in general, development of employees and, and, and everything like that.
1:59
So the work is, I, I'm sure exciting.
2:01
It's also great to be building something.
2:04
You know, we've all been and hopefully, you know, those of us that have done that have enjoyed it, but I've enjoyed it when I've done it.
2:08
So you've got, you know, you, you, you're, you, you dabbling a lot, you're an expert in total rewards, you're an expert in a lot of things because you know, I know that because I had the privilege of working, working with you and you've got a story for us about human first and empathetic leadership that you wanna tell the audience today.
2:25
Yeah, I think I would start with just a story back when I was becoming a leader and it was sort of thinking back to one of my first leadership roles.
2:36
I was in that classic transition from individual contributor to being responsible for, for leading a team.
2:45
And that transition is not always easy.
2:48
We're so used to, you know, sort of project oriented work or delivery.
2:55
And now I was responsible for not only selecting great talent but helping them along their careers.
3:03
And early on, I thought the recipe for success was my path and how I would get from A to B to C.
3:11
And it didn't take long for me to learn that there's, there's power in listening first.
3:17
There's power in storytelling, But more importantly, power and connecting with people.
3:24
And so, I often reflect on that time even now as I'm working with someone new on the team, I'll share my stories, my learnings, my mistakes, in, in an effort to connect.
3:42
And, you know, I often think that early in my career, I would have said, OK, this is how you do it.
3:49
You go from point A to B and, there, there's really no other way to do it.
3:54
And I, I think I'm probably stubborn.
3:56
He said I was a dog, dad.
3:57
I happen to have bulldogs in my life.
3:59
So we're naturally stubborn folk to start with.
4:04
but it didn't take long for me to, to learn how to pause, listen.
4:09
And, you know, now I think the way I frame it up is if I said, hey, Paul, we need to be, in Central Park on Friday at noon.
4:20
I'm gonna give you all the context in the world, but I'm going to get out of the way.
4:23
, and if along the way you get a flat tire or find a roadblock, shoot, I'll be there to help you.
4:30
but again, I'm, I'm gonna get out of the way and, have, have you get there on, on your own path And I, I think that's worked out really well for me.
4:40
No, I love that approach.
4:41
Do you have a, is there a specific example of when you've done that and kind of how you told your story and, and what the outcome was?
4:50
Yeah, I think, you know, it was I've been lucky along the career.
4:54
I've had opportunities to learn and grow in my own roles and there was sort of a, an inflection point in my career where I had long been sort of in the compensation reward space and then I, I was elevated in my role to lead a global team that over saw some other areas that were non awards.
5:13
And so for the first time in my career, I had to go find someone that, that could lead the comp team.
5:19
And and I remember that, that got a little itchy, right?
5:24
It sort of, it was sort of hard to think that, oh, no, I, I can still lead the cop team and do all this other stuff.
5:30
, but there are only so many hours in the day and, I knew I had to go find someone not only great to lead that team, but frankly better than me.
5:41
someone that would do it different, someone that was complimentary.
5:45
And so, you know, and I reflect on that, that was a great lesson in letting go.
5:53
I think as we all look for ways to get more efficient to do more with less to work, say, you know, sort of hard or smarter, not harder, it starts with letting go and trusting others.
6:08
And I, I, I, I'll, I'll forever remember that jury.
6:13
Yeah.
6:13
No, it's a, it's, it's a good example.
6:15
I think we've all all been there.
6:18
I guess my, my other question would be is how did you, how did you do that?
6:25
Because it is hard when you've done the work.
6:28
And you, that is your area of expertise and your, your role gets broader or bigger and you've got to kind of like you're smart about the fact I need somebody who is good at this.
6:38
But how did you step away and how did that person react?
6:43
Yeah.
6:43
You know, I think for me, I really, I, I wanted to find someone that was gonna be more than the technical, you know, like take compensation.
6:56
It's so technical, it's so data driven, but I wanted to find someone that was one gonna have a blend of being able to use data and tell stories, but also someone that was gonna be humble because I knew they were gonna now lead the team and lead the day to day and I was gonna pull away and pull back and focus on other stuff.
7:18
And so I think in those early conversations, I was less concerned with, with their technical capabilities.
7:25
My point of view at this point was like, they know how to do the stuff, they know how to do the work, but sort of you know, sort of how do they make decisions about people and for people.
7:38
And maybe that was sort of my way of screening for folks that would put people first and that could be hard, I think with sort of technical sort of wired people, it can be harder to lead with empathy.
7:53
I think it can be harder to lean towards the right brain, their creativity and, and, and thinking through that lens.
8:03
So I think it was in those conversations or of those selection conversations where I, I focused more on the people side of the work than the actual sort of technical analytics, all that stuff.
8:19
Well, I, I, I, I appreciate that and I com total rewards in general.
8:23
There's a ton of data.
8:24
But I always, and you know this because I would say this to you and I'd say it to a lot of people that I worked with com It's an art, it's not a science.
8:31
There's a ton of data, but you've got to take it and make subjective decisions about human beings, about people and how to compensate them, what your comp philosophy is and things like that.
8:41
Is there anything that you learned other than knowing that you need to, like, go from the person?
8:44
Because I, I love the fact that you said you wanted to hire somebody smarter.
8:48
I say that a lot, I'm not the smartest person in the room.
8:50
Like I wanna hire smart people that are gonna help me solve problems.
8:53
Is there anything that you took away from the experience?
8:59
Yeah, I, I think out of the gate was just a real opportunity to learn and grow myself fast forward.
9:06
I found the, found the best person brought her on board and I can immediately tell from our sinks that, oh my gosh, she's gonna make me better and make everyone around us better.
9:18
And I think it's one thing philosophically to go out and say, hey, I want to hire a bunch of people around me that are gonna be better and run faster.
9:26
But it's not until you get into those moments where you're like, oh, I would have never thought about the problem that way or I would have never thought about influencing a senior leader that way and it's those new perspectives, right?
9:40
And, you know, I, I think there's such, there's such a, a power and an unlock there of finding people that those new perspectives just see things differently than you,, than you do.
9:54
And that was such a big learning early on, for me, in that particular example.
9:59
Absolutely.
9:59
I love that.
10:00
I think that it's so, so evolved as a leader because I think some leaders never get to that point and don't understand that.
10:07
And it's not a dig, it's just, you know, people have to progress at their own pace, but I think the sooner leaders can figure that out and like leading is not rocket science, you're dealing with a bunch of people and you've got to make subjective decisions a lot of the time but bringing in and surrounding yourself with another set and you're right when, when you know AAA recruiter or, or somebody's screening is gonna screen for the function ability.
10:30
But like, it's that it's those people skills and are they a good human being?
10:34
And you know, are they gonna make this team better?
10:36
Are they gonna make the group better?
10:37
And are, are we gonna have a good time while we do it because, you know, we work hard, but we also want to have a good time.
10:42
So I, I love the fact that you evolved early in your, your career as a, as a leader.
10:48
Well, I I, I love the fun aspect.
10:51
We all work really hard.
10:53
you have to have that there and yeah, look, the, the, the, the evolution is, is ongoing.
10:59
I will forever change.
11:01
I think that's why I like the change work that I do.
11:05
There's no start and end to the change.
11:07
I think it's a forever thing.
11:09
Yeah, nothing's ever done.
11:10
That's my new saying.
11:12
Yeah, Johnny, thank you so much for being on 52 humans today.
11:15
I appreciate you.
11:17
Oh, I appreciate you, Paul.
11:18
Thank you very much.
11:19
Thanks for joining us on 52 Humans.
11:21
If you enjoyed this, please give me a follow to be notified of future episodes.
11:25
I so appreciate all of your support if you want to watch past episodes or want to rewatch this episode or you have a story of human first leadership that you'd like to tell.
11:34
Please go to Paul wolf dot com forward slash 52 humans.
11:38
And lastly as I do each week, please reflect on one way that you can bring some more empathy to your workplace this week or this month or this year.
11:46
It's these small acts of kindness and humanity that create a better work culture and ultimately a better world.
11:51
I'll see you next time on 52 humans.